Favorite Game Classics?

[Pheonix]

Games like halo come in mind for that.

And I think mature games do affect people, just in different ways. Some person may play something and it will screw them up psychologically, and some other person might play it and think "Wow, this is stupid". Anyway thats what I think about things like that. One thing that affects me in games is language actually. I've learned to control but when i played Gears of War the first time I actually found myself slipping a few times when I never did.

But things like violence in games doesn't bother me at all. I know some people say i'm desensitized, and I guess i am to digital violence because i can tell it's so not real. I've seen real dead bodies and mutilated people and the real thing freaked me out so much that i couldn't sleep for a month and a half. Anyway thats my 2 cents on the whole content thing.

What in your mind makes Halo good for a Christian? I ask because I look at Halo and I see this:
1. Do unto others before they do unto you - the opposite teaching of the Holy Bible.
2. Get revenge on your enemies - the opposite teaching of the Holy Bible.
3. The religious leadership is oppressive and evil. You must destroy them. - debatable on where the Holy Bible falls on that one. There are verses about letting God take care of the evil, and there are verses where some religious leaders are shown as bad.
What am I missing about Halo? Where is it reinforcing the teachings of the Holy Bible?

I really don't want to go into this too much, but I can't ignore this. I love Halo, and these points are stretching it just a tad. For one, Christians are called to fight in many different places in the Bible. Killing in self-defense or in wartime is something that was never condemned in the Bible. It's like the passage in Luke 6 when Jesus heals the man's crippled hand on a sabbath. That's a bit of a stretch, I know, but it has similar meaning. Stopping a tyrannical genocide is correct in this instance.

I have no idea what instance you're referring to in your second point. I've played through all the Halos, and you are always fighting to protect, not avenge. This also coincides with my first point. Do you think we were wrong when we retaliated against Jihad after 9-11? I obviously don't want to change the argument, but think about it.

As for your third point, you don't think God uses men to bring down nations? Out of all the nations that have come and gone, only of a few were ended by God actually sending angels (or himself) from Heaven. I believe God raises up evil men and heads of religious organizations, but he also raises men who will oppose them. Martin Luther, Winston Churchill, and practically all of the Judges. Moses left Egypt basically stripped and naked for wealth, organics, and culture. Jesus also opposed the religious leaders in his day, albeit, in a different way.

[chrystianf]

I have no idea what instance you're referring to in your second point. I've played through all the Halos, and you are always fighting to protect, not avenge.

It sounds like they are talking about multiplayer, where you get achievements for certain things like killing someone who has killed you, or getting the first kill. Things like that. I'm not taking sides, just pointing out something.

[FamilyFriendlyGaming]

Games like halo come in mind for that.

And I think mature games do affect people, just in different ways. Some person may play something and it will screw them up psychologically, and some other person might play it and think "Wow, this is stupid". Anyway thats what I think about things like that. One thing that affects me in games is language actually. I've learned to control but when i played Gears of War the first time I actually found myself slipping a few times when I never did.

But things like violence in games doesn't bother me at all. I know some people say i'm desensitized, and I guess i am to digital violence because i can tell it's so not real. I've seen real dead bodies and mutilated people and the real thing freaked me out so much that i couldn't sleep for a month and a half. Anyway thats my 2 cents on the whole content thing.

What in your mind makes Halo good for a Christian? I ask because I look at Halo and I see this:
1. Do unto others before they do unto you - the opposite teaching of the Holy Bible.
2. Get revenge on your enemies - the opposite teaching of the Holy Bible.
3. The religious leadership is oppressive and evil. You must destroy them. - debatable on where the Holy Bible falls on that one. There are verses about letting God take care of the evil, and there are verses where some religious leaders are shown as bad.
What am I missing about Halo? Where is it reinforcing the teachings of the Holy Bible?

I really don't want to go into this too much, but I can't ignore this. I love Halo, and these points are stretching it just a tad. For one, Christians are called to fight in many different places in the Bible. Killing in self-defense or in wartime is something that was never condemned in the Bible. It's like the passage in Luke 6 when Jesus heals the man's crippled hand on a sabbath. That's a bit of a stretch, I know, but it has similar meaning. Stopping a tyrannical genocide is correct in this instance.
I have no idea what instance you're referring to in your second point. I've played through all the Halos, and you are always fighting to protect, not avenge. This also coincides with my first point. Do you think we were wrong when we retaliated against Jihad after 9-11? I obviously don't want to change the argument, but think about it.
As for your third point, you don't think God uses men to bring down nations? Out of all the nations that have come and gone, only of a few were ended by God actually sending angels (or himself) from Heaven. I believe God raises up evil men and heads of religious organizations, but he also raises men who will oppose them. Martin Luther, Winston Churchill, and practically all of the Judges. Moses left Egypt basically stripped and naked for wealth, organics, and culture. Jesus also opposed the religious leaders in his day, albeit, in a different way.

Why not get into this too much? At some point I would hope the discussion could get into theological backing. Let me elaborate.

Ephesians 6:12 - For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

So how does Halo square with that? Are we battling spiritual forces only in Halo? By winning in Halo do we set Satan back? Are we furthering the kingdom of God by beating the 'bad guys' in Halo?

What about Matthew 5:39 and Luke 6:29? Where Jesus commands us to turn the other cheek. Then we have Matthew 5:43-48
43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Does Halo encourage you to love your enemies?

After 9-11 I was one of the people saying we need to pray for them. Violence begets violence. Hatred continues in cycles because neither side lets go, and takes the path of love. Believers are martyred all the time. What is interesting is how the church has explosive growth during times of persecution. Non-believers are impressed when they see someone willing to die for their beliefs and not fight back. I have seen over and over again (during times of persecution) non-believers express an interest in my beliefs when I choose not to retaliate.

Yes God does men to take care of violent people. There is also a history of Isreal trusting and obeying God. Multiple enemies coming after Isreal, and God having them fight amongst themselves. How many times did the Isrealites never kill anyone, but their enemies were all dead the next morning?

This gets into some pretty deep theological stances, interpretations and opinions. Some of it I believe we will never fully comprehend on this side of eternity. I know I don't.

You are right God does raise up people to stand up against those doing evil. I personally believe the non-violent ones made a larger impact. I don't think we will change the jihadists by turning their countries to glass. I think we will only strengthen their resolve. On the other side of the coin - if America as a country only succumbs to their demands it will only encourage more demands in the future. This is why I was a non-combatant in the military. I served, but would not kill.

chrystianf,
Multiplayer would be a great example, thank you. If someone kills you in Halo, what do you do when you respawn? And each player would have to answer that question for themselves.

Say like David from the Holy Bible. He had opportunities to kill King Saul who was hunting him. He choose to not kill him - every single time. If you had that opportunity in Halo - would you mirror David's choice or do something different?

I think it could also apply to single player. If an enemy gets you, and you go back to the last save/respawn - what do you do next time? Say you now know they are hiding there waiting to get you when you enter a certain room. Won't you want revenge? Get them before they get you?

[ohnolookout]

http://www.desiringgod.org/resource-lib ... h-pacifism

I believe this adequately shows my position on this:

To let someone murder when it is in your power to stop them is completely contrary to our moral sentiments. If a Hitler is on the move and seeking to bind the world in tyranny and destroy entire ethnic groups, it would seem very clearly wrong not to oppose him with force (which sometimes is the only effective method). It is true that war itself is harmful and tragic; but pacifism would result in even more harm to the world because it would give wicked people virtually free reign...

..Since the Scriptures teach that it is right for a nation to engage in a just war, it follows that it is therefore right for a Christian to fight in such a war. Some have argued that non-Christians may fight in wars but believers may not, but this distinction is not found in Scripture. Scripture teaches that it is not sin for a government to engage in a just war, and there is therefore nothing that forbids Christian from being involved in just wars...

What, now, are we to make of Jesus' radical commands in Matthew 5:39-41?...How does this fit with what we have seen above?...So the problem is not that it looks as though Jesus is telling us to let evil steam-roll over us. The problem is that it looks like Jesus is telling us that the only way we should ever seek to overcome evil is by letting it go and responding with kindness. It looks as though he leaves no place for using force in resisting evil.

...Part of the answer to this difficulty lies in understanding the hyperbolic nature of much of the Sermon on the Mount. I don't think that Jesus is telling us never to respond to evil with force (such as in self-defense) or always to literally turn the other cheek when we are slapped any more than his command later in the Sermon on the Mount in Matthew 6:6 means that we should only pray when we are completely alone or his command in 5:29 means that some should literally gouge out their eyes. Jesus himself drove the thieves away from the temple with a whip (John 2:15) and Paul at times insisted on his rights as a Roman citizen (Acts 25:11; cf. also the interesting instance of 16:35-40). Jesus is using hyperbole to illustrate what our primary disposition and attitude should be, not to say that we should literally give in to every attempt to do evil against us.

Considering in the Halo universe, the enemy is seeking to wipe out all of mankind, I don't see how it would be wrong to retaliate against them and the Flood (which I guess is neither human nor alien).

[Nate DaZombie]

... it's a game... and Halo isn't a slaughter fest like some other games. War is brutal, you have to fight back in order to NOT DIE. The aliens started it, and in the end, they all say they're sorry and everybody's happy.

[Drewsov]

Removed bit about FFG, this would have been better suited for a PM. -CCGR

Anyway, back to games, I think guys like Drew (and correct me if I'm wrong) are able to play a game like GTA or Binding of Isaac and remain detached emotionally, psychologically and spiritually from them. I would still advise every Christian to avoid those games, but have to trust him to make the right decision for himself.

I actually get very emotionally and psychologically involved in characters' heads and their stories. I cried several times during GTA4. There's a specific sequence where you're asked to choose who to side with; the one you side with asks you to kill the other. It's brutal and emotionally done and it's stuck with me for years.

I've not played much of Binding of Isaac. I know that - from what I've seen and heard - I'd likely interpret it differently than the review on this site did. That's fine. I listened to a vlog the other day where it was stated that we need to see as children before we understand metaphor; therefore, Christ representing his body at the First Communion is literally his body (as a child would see it), before it is seen as metaphor. Jesus asked that we come and believe as children (which opens a whole other can of worms about Calvinism and Lutheranism, justification by faith, etc., etc.).

But, I mean, things don't have to be all dark and grimy and foreboding for them to have an emotional effect on me. Certainly playing through certain sequences as the father in Heavy Rain did that, but then again, that game also asks how far you'd go to save your child, and then tells you to mutilate your hand... not so fun, but definitely shocking and definitely something that affected me.

Here's the thing, and I think this is the root of the matter: games are young(ish). They haven't had the time to progress the narrative form the way the novel has. We haven't seen our Citizen Kane yet, but that's not really what we need. We need something that defines the medium for us, and hiding behind fear and taboo and religion isn't going to move the industry forward. Yes, it's good that there's stuff for the kids. There's always stuff for the kids, and it's important that that content is appropriate and handled as such. It's depressing to see the number of kids who play M-rated games these days. There are plenty of amazing games that are designed for the entire family. Viva Pinata is one of my favorites, and it's very much an E-rated game (though admittedly, it has a few disturbing undertones). I love Forza Motorsport 4. What is there offensive in that?

Gaming absolutely needs things that push the boundaries. We need - hypothetically speaking - our own 120 Days of Sodom, as well as our Adventures of Huck Finn, our Blood Meridian. I come from a literary background. I process stories in that way. I can't see them another. So when it comes to that, I truly believe that even though "safe" content is going to be desired by some, the best kind of gaming moves the medium forward is surprising ways.

And I'm sorry if that's not what FFG sees in his narrow view of "what gaming should be," but it's what I see. I'm not apologetic about that, and I'm not going to back that up with Scripture. You want to see me talk Scripture? Go check out my post here: http://bombadillo.net/?p=249

True to form, I get into existentialism there, too.

[ChickenSoup]

I love Forza Motorsport 4. What is there offensive in that?

*eagerly anticipates the response in which the materialism and glorification/"worship" of drivers and money-making is discussed, along with the inability to put a WWJD sticker on one's car*

Also, Drew.

Seriously.

Your theological blog post?

...

Refreshingly intelligent discussion about games. It's been so long since I've seen one like that. O_o
+1rep

[TheWampaKing]

No idea how the rep points work, >_> but Drew that was a delicious post

[Nate DaZombie]

No idea how the rep points work, >_> but Drew that was a delicious post

Beneath your name, at the bottom, is a green plus sign. Click on it, and it adds a rep point to that person. I normally do it when I see a post that is so well written, or hilarious, in order to show my appreciation.

[TheWampaKing]

I did that and it just brings me to a page that says "General Error" )-K

[ccgr]

what forum skin are you using Wampa?

[Nate DaZombie]

I'm sorry, I said your name. I meant somebody else's name.

[TheWampaKing]

what forum skin are you using Wampa?

It's called twilightBB

I'm sorry, I said your name. I meant somebody else's name.

Heh I know that. I just wasn't sure if I was doing something wrong cuz of the error

[bgpablo]

here's a good question...if you COULD give yourself rep points, would you?
If so, how many?
If not, why not?

[Drewsov]

I have other things to say, but for now, let me amend my post directed at FFG with this:

"I pardon him, as God will pardon me." - Richard II, Shakespeare

Certain things need to be said, but the main forum wasn't the place for those things. FFG, you know how I feel now; I'm going to work on getting past some of that stuff, because mentioning this stuff repeatedly isn't doing anyone any good. That said, we have some things to discuss and work on, and I'm willing to do that - civilly - in PM if you are.