Christ Centered Gamer

ArcticFox wrote:

BlockHeadLewie wrote: Just for sake of this discussion, ArcticFox, what if it turns out to be true?

Then it's true, and Heaven will be more heavily populated than I thought. Doesn't cause any problems for me.

But let me turn the question back: What if it isn't? What if people who proclaim OSAS to be doctrinal truth have inadvertently caused some to fall away, because they don't believe they need to worry about staying faithful. What then? What should people who preach OSAS do about that?

Fair enough! Let's go there, just for the discussion:

If it is not true then we ALL have a problem. Those who believe that faith and works are important will be only half accepted into Heaven and from God's word that's not enough. Those who do not believe wouldn't be involved until that moment of "depart from me, I never knew you." Anyone who accepts "supportive works" as fact and mainly rely on "another's opinion of God's Word" haven't any real involvement with the full truth (assuming God's word doesn't support OSAS) would be happy until the same moment of "depart from me, I never knew you."
Even deeper into this part of the discussion comes the thoughts of "there is no Heaven or Hell", "God is merely a myth, someone created to keep kids and miscreants in check", "The Bible is a good story book full of interesting ideas and concepts" or even as far as "Why are we even discussing this worthless topic?"
So as I see things, if it's true OR false, we all still have the same problem. As Mr T might say, "I pity the fool who goes against God!"

I'm not sure I understand how works comes into it. I'm not talking about earning one's way into Heaven... that isn't possible.

BlockHeadLewie wrote:First let me say I appreciate this discussion! I also respect everyone involved and hold no disrespect for ANY opinion. However the Word of God is quite clear and flawless, so with that behind us all I shall attempt to address your post.

Sstavix wrote:What if it is true? What if it is false? What if the only way to salvation was to be born in 1743, own three cats, one dog and attend church every other Sunday instead of every Sunday?

The only truth that we really know of is that no one on this planet can say, with 100% certainty and proof, that they know the only correct way to Heaven - or even if there is only one correct way to Heaven. Only God knows for certain, and obviously, it's not something that He has made abundantly clear for all of us.

Sorry, this is incorrect. God made it perfectly clear through His Son:

John 14:6 wrote:"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

John 11:25 wrote:"Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live."

And several other verses...

You and I can certainly agree on that point! But what about others? Especially those outside the Christian faith? If it was universally accepted and 100% certain that Christianity was the only way to get to Heaven, then no one wouldn't be a Christian. That was the point I was trying to make. (And even within the Christian faith, there are dozens, if not hundreds, of opinions as to which way might be the "true" way. )

BlockHeadLewie wrote: There is only one Word from God we should pay attention to and that is The Bible. Other sources can (and sometimes do) contradict, restructure, confuse or even delete parts God Himself intend as vital.

What about contradictions that appear in the Bible itself? For example, there are two different accounts of how Judas died. Just out of curiosity, how do you rectify contradictions like this?

BlockHeadLewie wrote: (I honestly hope no one was hurt in the making of this post...)

I wasn't.

Sstavix wrote:

BlockHeadLewie wrote:First let me say I appreciate this discussion! I also respect everyone involved and hold no disrespect for ANY opinion. However the Word of God is quite clear and flawless, so with that behind us all I shall attempt to address your post.

Sstavix wrote:What if it is true? What if it is false? What if the only way to salvation was to be born in 1743, own three cats, one dog and attend church every other Sunday instead of every Sunday?

The only truth that we really know of is that no one on this planet can say, with 100% certainty and proof, that they know the only correct way to Heaven - or even if there is only one correct way to Heaven. Only God knows for certain, and obviously, it's not something that He has made abundantly clear for all of us.

Sorry, this is incorrect. God made it perfectly clear through His Son:

John 14:6 wrote:"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

John 11:25 wrote:"Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live."

And several other verses...

You and I can certainly agree on that point! But what about others? Especially those outside the Christian faith? If it was universally accepted and 100% certain that Christianity was the only way to get to Heaven, then no one wouldn't be a Christian. That was the point I was trying to make. (And even within the Christian faith, there are dozens, if not hundreds, of opinions as to which way might be the "true" way. )

As I mentioned in another post I made, Christ Followers are in every denomination (or faith or religion, etc) but not all denomination (or faith or religion, etc) are Christ Followers.

Sstavix wrote:

BlockHeadLewie wrote: There is only one Word from God we should pay attention to and that is The Bible. Other sources can (and sometimes do) contradict, restructure, confuse or even delete parts God Himself intend as vital.

What about contradictions that appear in the Bible itself? For example, there are two different accounts of how Judas died. Just out of curiosity, how do you rectify contradictions like this?

BlockHeadLewie wrote: (I honestly hope no one was hurt in the making of this post...)

I wasn't.

Once again I am hit with a good question! Love this! Anyways I myself had doubts because of said contradictions. I began research into a lot of things and everything I researched had nothing to do with The Bible! I'd ask people.
PEOPLE!?! To want the truth from God and ask mere people is rather, well, blockheaded! I had only been saved for maybe a year so was literally "still in spiritual diapers". Finally someone I had asked this of told me point blank about how infallible God's Word really is. He suggested I pray about it.
Now anyone who knows anything about God and His Will would tell you if you ask, believe and accept it as done, then according to God's Word and Will it shall be so. All I asked for was the truth behind the lie. Woops!
(WARNING: This may be shocking, but I'm going to use that phrase again!)
Our own understanding is from the wrong point of view much of the time. Satan can and will get into our thoughts and manipulate them so the actual truth (such as "maybe there's more to this than I see" and etc) are hidden from us. God can and will use technology to get His Word to us!
I was researching a verse in Genesis about the very thing you asked about: Judas's death. I found the following page and that's when I first began understanding that MY understanding needed to grow and improve. THIS is where my perspective changed!

How Did Judas Die?

Now you may ask "Why am I still listening to people?" Simple answer:

Proverbs 27:17 wrote:Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend.

(Not to mention other links at the Back to Genesis website answered MANY other questions!)
Peace!

BlockHeadLewie wrote: I was researching a verse in Genesis about the very thing you asked about: Judas's death. I found the following page and that's when I first began understanding that MY understanding needed to grow and improve. THIS is where my perspective changed!

How Did Judas Die?

Interesting answer! It's great when Heavenly Father answers our prayers, isn't it?

For me, the response I got was "does it matter?" Fortunately, I received some elaboration, too - no matter how Judas died, does it change the important parts of the Gospels - namely, the example and lessons Jesus left for us? When you think about it, the answer really is, no. Two of the people had different accounts of Judas' death - so what? I should be focusing more on the substance of the lessons, rather than the minutiae. It was a good lesson for me.