Go ask the lizard-guy something....

[Chozon1]

Organized protest doesn't necessarily mean picketing...I was thinking more of a petition that said the signee would not shop at X store on Thursday because it was wrong, not only to make retail employees work and be away from their families, but to make a day about Thanksgiving into a day about buying stuff.

Myself, I won't be shopping on Thanksgiving. Unless it's late night/early morning Friday. Sadly, the days of shopping from 2AM until 2PM are gone, ruinated by all the black Friday doorbusters being on Thursday...I blame greed. I miss those times.

Dream Thief?

[Sstavix]

Dream Thief?

Do you mean that nasty villain that comes along, takes your dreams, and then crushes them underfoot while laughing in your face?

It is one of the nastiest villains out there. And worst of all, the thing is immortal. You just can't kill it. And as much as you can try to ignore it, it keeps showing up and you can't avoid it.

Others may have names for it, but I call it Reality.

[Chozon1]

It's actually an alien. But that works too.

Giant inflatable Christmas decorations?

[Deepfreeze32]

I'm hitting that "slump" point, but in a different way. I feel like my story is moving too quickly. I posted about this on Facebook, so I'll post it here:

As of a few minutes ago, I broke 14,000 words. I'm starting to hit the point where I feel I am writing too sparsely. The story is moving too fast, and I don't know if the story will make it to 50,000 without revising and expanding. Or making the story expand beyond it's logical conclusion.

Maybe it's because I was raised more on cinema than on novels, but I'm a firm believer in consistent pacing and avoiding extraneous exposition. While not all novels have extraneous exposition, I feel like with writing for text it is far easier to diverge and get away with it than it is in film. With a film or episode of television, you are constrained to an approximate running time, and it seriously behooves you to cut it down to the absolute minimum needed to tell your story. I worry that my story is too short to make a novel without adding stuff that dilutes the novel. I'm writing the bare minimum of what I can, perhaps because I'm thinking more like a screenwriter than a novel writer.

Or maybe I'm rambling incoherently because it's almost midnight and I'm tired.

Do you have any advice, or thoughts?

[Sstavix]

Giant inflatable Christmas decorations?

Maybe it's just me, but I find them kind of tacky. I guess I'm just a traditionalist, and prefer strings of lights and shiny ornaments.

I'm hitting that "slump" point, but in a different way. I feel like my story is moving too quickly. I posted about this on Facebook, so I'll post it here:

As of a few minutes ago, I broke 14,000 words. I'm starting to hit the point where I feel I am writing too sparsely. The story is moving too fast, and I don't know if the story will make it to 50,000 without revising and expanding. Or making the story expand beyond it's logical conclusion.

Maybe it's because I was raised more on cinema than on novels, but I'm a firm believer in consistent pacing and avoiding extraneous exposition. While not all novels have extraneous exposition, I feel like with writing for text it is far easier to diverge and get away with it than it is in film. With a film or episode of television, you are constrained to an approximate running time, and it seriously behooves you to cut it down to the absolute minimum needed to tell your story. I worry that my story is too short to make a novel without adding stuff that dilutes the novel. I'm writing the bare minimum of what I can, perhaps because I'm thinking more like a screenwriter than a novel writer.

Or maybe I'm rambling incoherently because it's almost midnight and I'm tired.

Do you have any advice, or thoughts?

Actually, I do , because I just used this myself a day or two ago. In order to pad the word count and throw in some (possibly unnecessary) drama, add a love triangle. It does seem extraneous, but it helps you to get to that magic 50,000 mark. Just keep telling yourself that you can fix in in the editing process. (To fit with the analogy of making TV shows or movies, think about all the stuff and scenes that they film that don't make it into the final product. You're working on the raw material of your film, and will work on cutting scenes later. )

[Chozon1]

But without giant inflatable Christmas decorations, how will I fulfill the annual "Nearly kill myself hanging over empty space to install decorations" tradition?

[Sstavix]

But without giant inflatable Christmas decorations, how will I fulfill the annual "Nearly kill myself hanging over empty space to install decorations" tradition?

Well, you know, as you get older, you'll discover that you and your family just don't have time to keep certain traditions alive. So it might be good to replace those with traditions you can do instead, such as "keep the giant inflatable Christmas decorations safely on the ground instead" tradition.

[Emwok]

Mage, rogue, or warrior?

[Sstavix]

Mage, rogue, or warrior?

Out of those three, I tend to lean towards rogue. But to be honest, in most fantasy-themed RPGs, I typically end up gravitating to the nature-loving, reclusive tree-huggers. So I'm often playing a ranger or a druid. Maybe it has something to do with all the time I spent in the woods as a kid, or because "Ranger" was the first class I played when introduced to Dungeons and Dragons.

[Deepfreeze32]

So here's an example of how I'm padding out the story, maybe you can provide alternate suggestions.

In my story, the characters need to infiltrate a large corporation and get some information off of a non-networked computer. So they decide to break in.

This, if taken directly (As I've been doing, which is I want to go pad out earlier sections) is maybe a thousand words. So to pad it out, I've done the following:

To get into the building, they need information. So they stake out the place, observe it, etc. But that's not enough. They decide they need to access the intranet to learn more about where things are (building maps, etc) before continuing. But access to the intranet from the outside is virtually impossible, unless you have a secure VPN connection. Since they can't spoof a connection, they decide to hijack someone else's connection. But to do that, they need assurances that someone will be working from home. So they plan to cut power to the building around lunch, and force people to go home to work. But to cut power, they need (in my case) a small explosive device. The only guy they know who sells such devices is a black market trader. One of the characters (A bit of a speed freak who is well-established already as a racer) leads the protagonist to the underground (literally) racing circuit, where the trader has a booth. They find out he wants money for the device, of course, so the racer enters the protagonist and himself into a tag-team racing event. The protagonist goes first (I wanted to make sure that he was believable, and therefore not inherently amazing at this as a relative beginner) and falls slightly behind, but the speed freak racer picks up the slack in the second half and they win enough money to buy the bomb.


That accounts for the last 4-5 thousand words in my story so far. I think I'll continue using this method to pad the story, but I think I may have to go back to the beginning to expand portions if I reach the logical "end" of my story before I hit 50,000. I'm going to do it either way, lol.


How is this as an example of padding? I figured that if my story is relatively slow (lots of dialog and so forth) having a more interesting caper section can help improve the pacing. it may get cut out in the end, but who knows?

The other option I've considered is, if I reach the end and I'm still not at 50,000, to add a side story that takes place between chapters. A set of interquels, if you will.

[Sstavix]

So your entire introduction, in which the characters meet and decide to commit a major felony for what's probably a really good reason... is about a thousand words? I can see why you feel inclined to pad it out! (By way of comparison, your post above is almost 500 words alone).

I don't see a problem with beginning a novel in media res, and it seems to me that this might be an approach to consider. Basically, keep in mind to cut out a good portion of that first thousand words or so, and that your novel will start with your crew getting ready to actually infiltrate the building. (Don't cut those words now - you'll need them later to pad your word count and to flesh out the scenes). Once the heist is completed, whether successful or not, then you can go into the reasons why these characters acted in this fashion. This can be done in the form of flashbacks, interviews, or even alternate perspectives. For example, the heist goes south and one of the characters ends up in police custody. You could have a portion of the book written from his perspective, and his interpretation of the events, as he recounts his story to the police and tries to plead his innocence in the failed hack.

Details also are good, and this is something that I've been trying to work on with my own writing as well. This was after my wife told me that she likes lots of seemingly extraneous, superfluous details to what she reads. Here's an example:

A green gorilla attacked. "Run!" said Roger.

Straight and to the point, right? But short. Let's see if we can expand it a bit....

Actually, no. I have an idea of what I would do. Let's see what you would do! Can you find a way to expand those seven words into a paragraph - or more - that's at least 100 words?

[Chozon1]

Testing the weight limits of carabiners?

[Deepfreeze32]

So your entire introduction, in which the characters meet and decide to commit a major felony for what's probably a really good reason... is about a thousand words? I can see why you feel inclined to pad it out! (By way of comparison, your post above is almost 500 words alone).

Not quite. I'm saying that in my above example, I applied the former technique (Minimal description and extrapolation) to the very beginnings of the novel (Because I was a little less concerned with detail then) whereas now, I'm applying the latter technique (Going for more descriptions, or leaving myself a note to add a mini-lecture on some topic there. I think, even though it's only been a few days, that my writing skill has already improved. XD

I don't see a problem with beginning a novel in media res, and it seems to me that this might be an approach to consider. Basically, keep in mind to cut out a good portion of that first thousand words or so, and that your novel will start with your crew getting ready to actually infiltrate the building. (Don't cut those words now - you'll need them later to pad your word count and to flesh out the scenes). Once the heist is completed, whether successful or not, then you can go into the reasons why these characters acted in this fashion. This can be done in the form of flashbacks, interviews, or even alternate perspectives. For example, the heist goes south and one of the characters ends up in police custody. You could have a portion of the book written from his perspective, and his interpretation of the events, as he recounts his story to the police and tries to plead his innocence in the failed hack.

It's true, I've considered the structure of the novel before, but decided that it was best to tackle that problem AFTER finishing the first draft.

Details also are good, and this is something that I've been trying to work on with my own writing as well. This was after my wife told me that she likes lots of seemingly extraneous, superfluous details to what she reads. Here's an example:

A green gorilla attacked. "Run!" said Roger.

Straight and to the point, right? But short. Let's see if we can expand it a bit....

Actually, no. I have an idea of what I would do. Let's see what you would do! Can you find a way to expand those seven words into a paragraph - or more - that's at least 100 words?

While I didn't actually expand that sentence, point well taken. I had limited writing brainpower this evening, so I decided to channel it into about 2,000 words rather than work on an exercise. No offense.

[Sstavix]

While I didn't actually expand that sentence, point well taken. I had limited writing brainpower this evening, so I decided to channel it into about 2,000 words rather than work on an exercise. No offense.

None taken. Although I have a good scene in my head, I decided to take the same approach. I may write it later, though - especially if others are willing to take up the challenge.

[Emwok]

Mage, rogue, or warrior?

Out of those three, I tend to lean towards rogue. But to be honest, in most fantasy-themed RPGs, I typically end up gravitating to the nature-loving, reclusive tree-huggers. So I'm often playing a ranger or a druid. Maybe it has something to do with all the time I spent in the woods as a kid, or because "Ranger" was the first class I played when introduced to Dungeons and Dragons.

I usually gravitate towards mages, but I like all three given the chance to play each one. I just made a new character in Skyrim and I decided to be a "squishy" mage (purely magic). My previous character had perks scattered across too many skill trees and wasn't really good at anything so I decided to actually focus on something this go-round.

Giant centipedes?