Spiritual Gifts

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Sstavix
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Re: Spiritual Gifts

Postby Sstavix » Thu Apr 21, 2016 1:29 pm

It isn't hard to fake speaking in tongues.
I can agree to that. I do it all the time - usually while trying to impersonate the Swedish Chef. Bork bork bork! :wink:

But as I mentioned earlier, when I attended a Pentecostal church years ago, I heard a couple of people speaking in tongues. Whether or not they were faking it, I couldn't tell, because it didn't make any sense to me.

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Re: Spiritual Gifts

Postby RedPlums » Thu Apr 21, 2016 4:04 pm

People are entitled to a belief, whether it be the right one or not. God gave us the ability to choose, and so we choose freely.

I want to be careful in how I saw this, so please don't mis-understand me. I don't believe that the Pentecostal's practice of speaking in tongues or healings or other such "miraculous" events are inspired by God, neither do I believe that they are inspired by the Devil. Something to understand is that if a person believes in something hard enough, whether it be right or wrong, eventually that belief will become truth to that person and no one will be able to sway them from said "truth", no matter what. It's a mental thing. Think that you're an elephant for long enough, and eventually, to you, you will be an elephant.
So, Pentecostal's could be simply blinded by their own beliefs, thinking and "knowing" that they're actually performing these amazing miracles when in all reality they are not. The person speaking in tongues will believe that they were divinely inspired and the listeners will too, because that is all they were taught, or it has been deeply ingrained in their minds. Also, such things like speaking in tongues or interpreting of them is easy to fake, as Chickensoup mentioned before. Sometimes I wonder if my baby niece speaks in tongues. Then I remember she's related to me, and so everything she says makes no sense.
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Re: Spiritual Gifts

Postby Partyninja » Thu Apr 21, 2016 4:15 pm

It isn't hard to fake speaking in tongues.
True dat XD
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Re: Spiritual Gifts

Postby Partyninja » Thu Apr 21, 2016 4:20 pm

I wanted to leave this discussion as open-ended as I possibly could, so I don't want to insert a large blog of scriptures and text just yet! Anyways, one topic that has driven me crazy lately has been the spiritual gifts that are talked about in the New Testament: speaking in tongues, interpreting tongues, healing, words of knowledge, words of insight, etc.

I have been earnestly seeking these gifts from God, wanting to take my faith to a new level, and have been looking for some people who could share their experiences with them. One big question that rages in my mind is do they still exist in today's day and age? Many Christians are divided on this subject, entire denominations are decided on this one issue, and I wanted to gather some of us together to hash this out. I have been contacting my pastors, small group leader, and others for their opinion about the spiritual gifts, and I wanted to know what you guys think too.

Hope we can figure something out! Please make any and all arguments completely Bible-based! Opinion is not allowed and I want to look at this subject from a perspective that we can all put our 100% trust into.
Well I have found that I have a gift help people when they are in pain/suffering or just down I give them special music that I find to very healing and yes it's all christian XD and the other thing I found I have a thing for animals a dog may hate other people not its owner but LOVE me that's why I want to become a vet tech so I can use that gift and take care of Gods creation tell me what you you think
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Re: Spiritual Gifts

Postby neighborhoodotaku » Thu Apr 21, 2016 5:08 pm

I love this subject! So glad someone brought it up!

Something to know is that some spiritual gifts have passed away, such as healings and speaking and interpreting tongues and some others, Paul tells us this in 1st Corinthians, we do not need those gifts because they were used to show others that God and Jesus were living and powerful beings who actually came to earth just as the disciples had been proclaiming. So God gave the early church those gifts to show the non-believers the veracity of the disciples words. Now, we have the complete Word of God and His creation and Spirit to show others that Christ is real and died for the world, so we don't need those gifts to prove our faith. I can provide more detail if you'd like, neighbor.

I personally believe I have the gift of Hospitality or Mercy (compassion) I love to entertain people at my home but I also love to help those who are hurting, spiritually or emotionally. They're great gifts to have.
Can you put exactly where you got that the spiritual gifts (healing, tongues, etc.) died with the apostles? Like specific Bible verses? I'm not sure about that belief because I have asked many other Christian friends of mine for their opinion on this matter and they said that the spiritual gifts do exist. They claim that they themselves have healed others who had fatal sicknesses or saw someone else do it through the Holy Spirit. This is exactly what I cannot figure out because every Christian I talk to seems to have a different opinion, and I feel like there should be one answer from the Bible that we are somehow missing.

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Re: Spiritual Gifts

Postby Sstavix » Thu Apr 21, 2016 7:50 pm

... and I feel like there should be one answer from the Bible that we are somehow missing.
It's entirely possible that there isn't a clear-cut answer in the Bible that everyone can universally agree upon. That's where faith and prayer come in.

Everyone - including on these forums - can give you their thoughts, opinions and interpretations. But you should let the Spirit guide you in order to determine what path or belief is the correct one for your position in life, and your role in God's plan. You can gather all the data you want - what the data actually means is up to you to interpret. As well as how you will apply it to your own life.

One quote from the Matrix often comes to mind in discussions like these: "I can only show you the door. It's up to you to walk through it." :)

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Re: Spiritual Gifts

Postby RedPlums » Tue Apr 26, 2016 7:41 pm

Can you put exactly where you got that the spiritual gifts (healing, tongues, etc.) died with the apostles? Like specific Bible verses?
No problemo.

1st Cor. 12:7-11 gives a nice list of some of the gifts.

1st Cor. 13:8-10 explains some of what I was saying before. It says that 'Where there are prophecies, they will fail, whether there are tongues, they will cease, whether there is knowledge, it will vanish ... But when that which is perfect (the Bible, for it had not yet been completely written and put together.) has come, then that which is in part (the afore mentioned gifts) will be done away.'

That passage explains that some gifts, such as speaking in tongues, prophecy, knowledge, will go away when that which is perfect, the Bible, comes. For when the Bible was written the church no longer needed these gifts to show men that Christ died for them because it was to be translated in a myriad of languages so that ALL could read and hear that Christ died for them. So the gifts of tongues, prophecy and knowledge were no longer needed.

1st Cor. 14:1-19 explains that speaking in tongues is not necessarily a gift to be highly sought for as it does not work well unless one is with the person to interpret. Many people now-a-days praise the gift of tongues as amazing and wonderful, but it's not. It's useless if someone is not there to interpret it. Also, verse 22 says that tongues was a sign for the unbelievers, not for the believers. It was a way to show that God was real to those who did not believe.

In fact, 1st Cor. 14 is just a really good chapter concerning tongues, I would recommend you read it.

I'll try to find some more for you after a bit of study. But this is what comes to my mind immediately. Thank you!
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Re: Spiritual Gifts

Postby Sstavix » Tue Apr 26, 2016 7:48 pm

1st Cor. 13:8-10 explains some of what I was saying before. It says that 'Where there are prophecies, they will fail, whether there are tongues, they will cease, whether there is knowledge, it will vanish ... But when that which is perfect (the Bible, for it had not yet been completely written and put together.) has come, then that which is in part (the afore mentioned gifts) will be done away.'

That passage explains that some gifts, such as speaking in tongues, prophecy, knowledge, will go away when that which is perfect, the Bible, comes. For when the Bible was written the church no longer needed these gifts to show men that Christ died for them because it was to be translated in a myriad of languages so that ALL could read and hear that Christ died for them. So the gifts of tongues, prophecy and knowledge were no longer needed.

1st Cor. 14:1-19 explains that speaking in tongues is not necessarily a gift to be highly sought for as it does not work well unless one is with the person to interpret. Many people now-a-days praise the gift of tongues as amazing and wonderful, but it's not. It's useless if someone is not there to interpret it. Also, verse 22 says that tongues was a sign for the unbelievers, not for the believers. It was a way to show that God was real to those who did not believe.
So do you believe that the Bible is the perfect - and final - message from God? That there is no continued revelation to us on Earth after the Bible was assembled? And if so, which version of the Bible is the "most perfect" translation / edition? (That could be a big point of debate right there....)

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Re: Spiritual Gifts

Postby RedPlums » Tue Apr 26, 2016 7:59 pm

Yes I do believe that the Bible is the complete and perfect word of God inspired by the Holy Spirit. While an interesting topic, this is not the place to discuss it.

I'd say that the NKJV or the NASB are good and solid translations as they have been proven to be some of the closest translations to many historical documents and the dead sea scrolls.
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Re: Spiritual Gifts

Postby Sstavix » Wed Apr 27, 2016 2:15 am

Yes I do believe that the Bible is the complete and perfect word of God inspired by the Holy Spirit. While an interesting topic, this is not the place to discuss it.

I'd say that the NKJV or the NASB are good and solid translations as they have been proven to be some of the closest translations to many historical documents and the dead sea scrolls.
I'd disagree with you on that (and even find the concept that God no longer communicates with us as somewhat depressing), but agree that that is a topic for another thread.

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Re: Spiritual Gifts

Postby RoosterOnAStick » Wed May 04, 2016 1:53 pm

Having been through various charismatic and Pentecostal traditions and the spirituality on my own church The Orthodox Church, I feel I can confidently say three things.

First, the deposit of faith, the Revelation that God has given us and His means of speaking with us are still here. Certain spiritual phenomenon during Pentecost were for a specific purpose or time but not all of them were like that.

Second, there is an important aspect and spiritual attitude of spiritual skepticism, discernment, and vigilance at all times. Not just to try to examine what signs to look for in the gifts themselves but also to discern what is truly in our own hearts. More on this later.

Third, we must remember that even when God deems it fit to grant someone a spiritual gift, it is not theirs to do as they please. True gifts of the spirit are not open to interpretation, to be used outside of Gods intented purpose, nor should they be providing "new" revelations. The mystery of the fullness of God's revelation to us is infinitely deep in of itself. There is so much to sink our teeth into that continuing or additional ones should not be required at all.


I have seen and experienced some things that were genuinely miraculous, but for each of those i have seen many others that could be chalked up to power of suggestion, psychosomatic phenomena and so forth, and others still I would say without a doubt were outright demonic. Both of the false types can be outright devastating to one's faith.

The main thing that will help is having a proper attitude and respect for spiritual gifts and the powers that can provide them. First thing is not to fancy ourselves to be more spiritual than we really are and that requires humility above all else. Pride both in ourselves and as a fruit of any alleged gift is the very first sign of suspicion.

Also, we should not have an attitude of seeking gifts or spiritual experiences, even as a means to an end. Spiritual gifts do not make a man holy, powerful a sign as they may be, only repentance, holy living, and growing in the grace of God does. God may bless someone insofar as He wills. However, absence of gifts is not a sign of an absence of a relationship with God, and their presence does not mean that somebody has one either. God may provide them as He sees fit and insofar as we are able to handle them, or, maybe He won't.

If you read most of 1 Corinthians with this in mind, you see the overall jist is a somewhat de-emphasis on the importance of certain gifts, specifically tongues and prophecy. Orderly worship, church discipline, respect for the spirits of the angels, good living, and the respect for the mystery of holy Communion take center stage in that epistle.

For us in the Orthodox Church we also look at various spiritual experiences, both good and bad, throughout the centuries as a sort of additional data repository we can query any new phenomenon against. Is it 100% foolproof, no, anyone can still be deceived, but it does provide an additional safeguard.

It is something I bring up because for us manifestations of those who have acquired the gifts of the spirit look radically different than quite a few of the modern day versions of spiritual gifts we are accustomed to hearing. It is certainly worth a look to see how the two compare...

http://www.pravoslavie.ru/english/47866.htm


This is from a conversation in 19th century Russia between a man named Nicholas Motovilov and Orthodox St. Seraphim of Sarov. St. Seraphim does a wonderful scriptural exegesis to demonstrate what the fruits of the spirit look like and it is a very edifying read.
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