Lawmakers Consider Preventing ALL Marriage In Oklahoma

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Lawmakers Consider Preventing ALL Marriage In Oklahoma

Postby ccgr » Tue Jan 13, 2015 4:28 pm

http://www.news9.com/story/24543033/law ... n-oklahoma

Well that's ONE way of handling it....

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Re: Lawmakers Consider Preventing ALL Marriage In Oklahoma

Postby Sstavix » Tue Jan 13, 2015 8:55 pm

The article seems to be a bit ambiguous as to what exactly is being presented.

If the state legislature is trying to make all marriage illegal in Oklahoma, then it is just a political stunt. It's never going to happen.

However, if they are saying that the state government has no authority to do anything about marriage and is trying to get out of the "marriage business" entirely, then I can back that. I've long been of the mindset that the government (especially on the federal level, but if states want to do it as well, more power to them) really should not have authority over religious institutions like marriage. In fact, having laws pertaining to marriage in the first place may run into the whole "separation of church and state" thingy that so many diehard liberals are willing to spout off, anyway. So why have any laws related to marriage at all? Leave it up to the churches to determine what and who can get married in their facilities.

And before someone trots out the "but what about people who aren't religious? Are you saying they can't get married?" card, may I point out that the government shouldn't have any laws related to marriage? That means no special tax breaks just because people are married, no special hospital restrictions, and no preferential treatment for married people vs. single people (at least not on the governmental level - individuals, churches and companies can do whatever they want in regards to this).

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Re: Lawmakers Consider Preventing ALL Marriage In Oklahoma

Postby ArchAngel » Tue Jan 13, 2015 10:10 pm

religious institutions like marriage.
Marriage is not a religious institution. Religions might stylize their own brands of marriage, but in a archetypal sense, it's a largely centered around biological reproduction and raising young. One can make a strong argument it's not even a human institution, but for the sake of the point, I'll keep it focused on it being a human social construct.
Just because a religion takes on marriage doesn't making it a religious institution, any more than singing is a religious activity because the church holds worship services.
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Re: Lawmakers Consider Preventing ALL Marriage In Oklahoma

Postby Sstavix » Wed Jan 14, 2015 3:47 am

Marriage is not a religious institution.
Do you have evidence or proof that the institution of marriage was created outside of a religious practice?

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Re: Lawmakers Consider Preventing ALL Marriage In Oklahoma

Postby ChickenSoup » Wed Jan 14, 2015 3:53 am

...do you have proof that it was created within entirely within religious practice, without using the Bible?
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Re: Lawmakers Consider Preventing ALL Marriage In Oklahoma

Postby Sstavix » Wed Jan 14, 2015 2:20 pm

...do you have proof that it was created within entirely within religious practice, without using the Bible?
From what I've seen, the earliest historical references to marriage stems from the ancient Israelite / Hebrew traditions. So, no. But that kind of restriction is like asking for a definition of a word without using a dictionary. :?

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Re: Lawmakers Consider Preventing ALL Marriage In Oklahoma

Postby ChickenSoup » Wed Jan 14, 2015 6:10 pm

If you're going to make arguments for attitudes in policy and lawmaking, you can't say "the Bible" as evidence.
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Re: Lawmakers Consider Preventing ALL Marriage In Oklahoma

Postby Sstavix » Wed Jan 14, 2015 8:47 pm

Ah, I see what you're getting at.

No, my approach would be to cite the Bible as a historical document, not as an indication of "God says marriage is thus," but more along the lines of "marriage has its origins in religious tradition, and examples of such practices can be found in the religious texts of the Israelites as far back as..." well, whenever the books have been written, according to Biblical scholars and historians. Since it looks like the tradition of marriage may actually stem from before written history, I think the only thing we can go is from what actually has been written, as anything else would largely call for speculation and theory, rather than absolute, irrefutable fact.

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Re: Lawmakers Consider Preventing ALL Marriage In Oklahoma

Postby ChickenSoup » Thu Jan 15, 2015 6:16 am

It is a rather nebulous area to talk about, yes. Regardless, I think we can agree that the government should butt out of it, religious or not.
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Re: Lawmakers Consider Preventing ALL Marriage In Oklahoma

Postby Sstavix » Thu Jan 15, 2015 6:24 am

Regardless, I think we can agree that the government should butt out of it, religious or not.
Most assuredly! :)

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Re: Lawmakers Consider Preventing ALL Marriage In Oklahoma

Postby ArcticFox » Sun Jan 18, 2015 4:41 pm

The title and tone of the article is a bit misleading.
"[My constituents are] willing to have that discussion about whether marriage needs to be regulated by the state at all," Turner said.
So it isn't about preventing marriage, it's about getting the state out of it entirely.

It's the nuclear option, to be sure, but anyone who's in the least bit surprised by this hasn't been paying enough attention, in my opinion. When gay marriage was being pushed on people on the grounds of fairness and equality, some people rightly expressed concern about how this would impact peoples' ability not to be involved in it. They were marginalized and assured that gay marriage would only affect gay people.

Now that this lie has been exposed for what it is, other alternatives are being explored to deny the State the ability to force people of religious conscience into doing things they believe are wrong.

Personally, I'm okay with this.
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Re: Lawmakers Consider Preventing ALL Marriage In Oklahoma

Postby ChickenSoup » Mon Jan 19, 2015 4:47 am

It's the nuclear option, to be sure, but anyone who's in the least bit surprised by this hasn't been paying enough attention, in my opinion. When gay marriage was being pushed on people on the grounds of fairness and equality, some people rightly expressed concern about how this would impact peoples' ability not to be involved in it. They were marginalized and assured that gay marriage would only affect gay people.
For 99% of individuals who do not work in things involved in weddings, it really does not affect anyone. And then, there's the two or three cases that got national attention because they went to court.
Now that this lie has been exposed for what it is
Yeah! Nice try to overthrow the country, LIBERALS
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Re: Lawmakers Consider Preventing ALL Marriage In Oklahoma

Postby ArcticFox » Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:55 am

There's been a lot more than two or three examples, brah.
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