The Rapture: The Hope of All Believers or Dangerous Heresy?

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Wolfeman
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Re: The Rapture: The Hope of All Believers or Dangerous Heresy?

Postby Wolfeman » Mon May 11, 2015 1:33 pm

Been on the road the past week and haven't been able to answer this the way I'd like. Here's a bit of a shotgun answer tho.

The Holy Spirit isn't something we can truly quantify. We are called to test it against the Scriptures tho. A good example would be "speaking in tongues" we see currently in charismatic churches. They claim they are indwelled with the spirit and are speaking in a heavenly language. If we view how tongues are spoken in church and what the Scriptures tell us about this practice we find it unbiblical. So no matter how it "feels", we can conclude that this example of being spirit filled is not from God. We need to do this each time we feel the Holy Spirit leading us somewhere or to something.

If God calls us to do something that goes against clear Biblical teaching, we can conclude it is not of God. An example: Your parents want you to go to college but you feel God is calling you to be a missionary to some country? Obviously, since God tells us to honor our parents by obeying them, this is probably not the leading of the Holy Spirit.

Interpreting Scripture thru the help of the Holy Spirit goes the same way. If God teaches us something in one part of the Bible that contradicts something in another part of the Bible, we know the spirit leading us is not of God.

So basically, every time one exercises discernment it must reflect back on and be viewed thru the lens of Scripture. As we build precept upon precept be build our spiritual muscles and are better able to eat the meat instead of just drinking the milk.

Fundamentals of the Faith are very important and should be clearly defined. But what do you propose we do with those who's viewpoints fall outside of ours? Who use other sources besides just Scripture to define those fundamentals? What about those who use the same words we use but define them differently?

Christ is the most central part of Christianity yet Mormons have a different view of who Christ is than most other Christians, Muslims believe in Christ yet have a different view of who He was. Even Catholics have a different view of Christ (viewed thru the lens of the Virgin Mary) than other Christians. Because we don't agree with them on "Who Christ is", do you feel we should exclude them from this forum, these conversations or our fellowship? Or should we know what we know and then agree to disagree?

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ArcticFox
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Re: The Rapture: The Hope of All Believers or Dangerous Heresy?

Postby ArcticFox » Mon May 11, 2015 1:56 pm

The Holy Spirit isn't something we can truly quantify. We are called to test it against the Scriptures tho. A good example would be "speaking in tongues" we see currently in charismatic churches. They claim they are indwelled with the spirit and are speaking in a heavenly language. If we view how tongues are spoken in church and what the Scriptures tell us about this practice we find it unbiblical. So no matter how it "feels", we can conclude that this example of being spirit filled is not from God. We need to do this each time we feel the Holy Spirit leading us somewhere or to something.
I agree with this, but I would point out that in this case the source of the "speaking in tongues" thing is a form of herd mentality fueled by preconceived notions and expectations.
If God calls us to do something that goes against clear Biblical teaching, we can conclude it is not of God. An example: Your parents want you to go to college but you feel God is calling you to be a missionary to some country? Obviously, since God tells us to honor our parents by obeying them, this is probably not the leading of the Holy Spirit.
I think this one is much less black & white. While it's true that we are called to honor our mother and father, that doesn't mean absolute, blind obedience. What if your parents are Muslim and oppose you getting baptized? What if your parents encourage you to live sinfully? Discernment is important. If you feel the Spirit prompting you to go on a mission and your parents oppose it, then you must obey the calling from God first.

Matthew 10:34-36 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
Interpreting Scripture thru the help of the Holy Spirit goes the same way. If God teaches us something in one part of the Bible that contradicts something in another part of the Bible, we know the spirit leading us is not of God.

So basically, every time one exercises discernment it must reflect back on and be viewed thru the lens of Scripture. As we build precept upon precept be build our spiritual muscles and are better able to eat the meat instead of just drinking the milk.
I agree with the idea you're sharing here, but again there's a caveat: If you feel prompted by the Spirit, it may be unwise to disregard it simply because it contradicts what you might THINK Scripture says. People disagree all the time on the meaning of Scripture passages. Some people believe the Bible clearly says Baptism is a requirement for salvation, others say it is not. Both sides are adamant that their understanding is the plain, objectively correct one.

So with that in mind, how can you be sure the metric your'e using is truly reliable?
Fundamentals of the Faith are very important and should be clearly defined. But what do you propose we do with those who's viewpoints fall outside of ours? Who use other sources besides just Scripture to define those fundamentals? What about those who use the same words we use but define them differently?
You talk to them.
Christ is the most central part of Christianity yet Mormons have a different view of who Christ is than most other Christians, Muslims believe in Christ yet have a different view of who He was. Even Catholics have a different view of Christ (viewed thru the lens of the Virgin Mary) than other Christians. Because we don't agree with them on "Who Christ is", do you feel we should exclude them from this forum, these conversations or our fellowship? Or should we know what we know and then agree to disagree?
I like the way you phrased that "Mormons have a different view of who Christ is than most other Christians" comment. Because it's quite true, we do. But implicit in the way you phrased that is also an acknowledgement of the Christianity of Mormons, and I appreciate it a lot.

That said, why would anyone even consider excluding people with different views from the forum? (I know you aren't proposing that be done, just answering hypothetically.) Jesus never excluded anyone, ESPECIALLY those who saw things differently. The Savior saw disagreement as an opportunity to reach out to people. Even the Pharisees were never sent away. Even the Romans weren't sent away. Even tax collectors, prostitutes, doubters, rich men, sinners of all kinds... were welcome in the presence not only of Jesus Christ Himself but His disciples as well.
"He who takes offense when no offense is intended is a fool, and he who takes offense when offense is intended is a greater fool."
—Brigham Young

"Don't take refuge in the false security of consensus."
—Christopher Hitchens


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