How not to preach to an atheist

[Bruce_Campbell]

Really, don't preach to us at all. Virtually all of us here in western culture have heard it all before, and a good portion of us (including myself) used to be Christians. But if you must preach to us, here's a word of advice…

Do not tell me that I'm miserable and my way of life is pointless. You don't know what's in my head, and it's arrogant for you to assume that I'm unhappy just because I don't share your particular set of beliefs. I'm not here to promote atheism so I'm not going to go into why I find it fulfilling, but it works for me, and I'm happy with it. I'm sure many of you are happy with whatever brand of Christianity you subscribe to, and it would be arrogant of me to assume that you're unhappy, insincere, or living a lie.

For you Christians reading this, how would you feel if I told you, "Hey dude, I love you, but your whole way of life is based on a lie. Your life is pointless and you'd be better off dumping this religious stuff." That's kind of a jerk thing to say, isn't it? (And please note that that statement does not reflect how I feel about Christians.)

Please note that this topic was inspired by an actual conversation I had with someone on the Minecraft server last night. I'm not going to call out this person, and I'm sure he or she wasn't trying to be nasty, and heck, I like this person and consider him or her a friend. I just thought this needed to be said.

Thanks for reading. Love and peace.

[ArcticFox]

You know, it's kind of funny that the frustration you're expressing here is very similar to the kind of frustration I've felt from time to time when people come at me for being Mormon.

But this thread isn't about that. I won't try and steal your thunder

I think what you're experiencing is backlash from people who have met Atheists who DO say things like "Hey dude, I love you, but your whole way of life is based on a lie. Your life is pointless and you'd be better off dumping this religious stuff." Now, I know you've never said that, and that's why I respect you. The problem is sometimes people who have heard that line want to lash out and they see you as a legitimate target for their frustration. I'm not defending them or anything, just trying to trace the problem to its source.

I admit there have been times when, after reading an article written by an Atheist about how goofy religion is or whatever, I've wanted to lash out too, and I have to remind myself that guys like you and ArchAngel are cool guys who had nothing to do with someone else's jerktastic behavior. It's human nature to feel like that, I guess. Some people let their angst get away with them.

In any case, my particular flavor of Christianity (LDS, for those who haven't yet realized it) is all about free will. We have to make our own choices, and live with the consequences, good or bad. That means we are not to judge others for their spiritual beliefs, but rather simply show them love as our brothers (and sisters) and be ready in case we're asked for information or assistance. It's never okay to belittle someone for their beliefs, or try to aggressively impose our own beliefs upon them.

I don't think there's one single person who ever joined Christianity after being an Atheist as a result of somebody trashing them.

"Hey, you know you're going to burn in hell forever for being an Atheist, you rotten heathen. You disgusting idiot. You vile sinmonger."
"Really? Holy cow I never knew how much I suck. Thanks for opening my eyes!"
"You're quite welcome. Thanks for realizing how awesome I am for loving Jesus before you did!"
"Oh, you're so very welcome. Now let me join your peaceful religion so I can belittle other people too!"
"Deal!"
"Squee!"



/soapbox

[ccgr]

Sorry rule number 9 was broken again. Hopefully they read this and respect your wishes. Obviously this is a Christian site and we don't hide that fact. However I want all to be welcome here.

While we are called to evangelize, it should only be to a receptive audience. Preaching to those uninterested gains nothing.

As Christians we get our fair share of ridicule and I realize that many aspects of our faith simply don't make sense. (People living over 900 years, the flood, virgin birth, walking on water, raising the dead, etc). We get accused of being stupid, believing in fairy tales, being weak.

It seems that Christians are considered intellectually stagnant and opposed to science. Not true. My kids love watching Bill Nye the Science Guy DVD's. I'm well aware that the Bible is not a science book. It does a pretty good job at chronicling history and is backed by archaeological findings. I believe in a creator and I believe that Jesus walked this earth as recorded by the Bible. Am I harming myself and my children for believing that we are here on this earth for a reason and not a random evolutionary process?

While not perfect I consider myself to be a good person. This forum is filled with good people no matter what belief system or lack thereof they follow. We have our fair share of nuts too. I just hope that we can see past the beliefs and respect each other as human beings. I like the diversity and the ability to pick the brains of people of other denominations and non-believers. It's a tough balancing act for sure, but I think we can pull it off. We have to unite and work together though.

[Bruce_Campbell]

Arctic, Cheryl, you guys are both my friends, and I hope you know I didn't post this to rag on anyone here, especially you two. I wasn't even really that offended. I just feel like ripping on someone, even if done "in love", is a poor way to represent your belief system. I don't think the person who said that to me even knew he was ripping on me, and that's why I felt it was worth posting this. I probably would have done the same when I was a Christian.

I agree that there are a lot of atheists out there who are jerks, and don't handle themselves well around people who are religious. I wouldn't call this an atheist or a Christian problem, just a human problem.

And I wouldn't even bother with this if I didn't think it was worth being friends with you guys. I have a lot of atheist friends who agree with most of what I believe (or don't believe), and I'm glad to have them. But I think that having friends who disagree with you is important too. For one thing, it's an exercise in treating people with kindness. Another important reason is that it's a learning experience. A lot of people on this site who don't share my beliefs are smarter than me, and I feel like I've learned a lot from debating with them.

Anyway, I love you guys, otherwise I wouldn't bother discussing this stuff with you.

Love and peace.

[ccgr]

It's all good and I'm glad you feel at home here even with the occasional slip ups. Nobody is perfect. Glad to have earned your friendship and respect.

[ArchAngel]

"Hey, you know you're going to burn in hell forever for being an Atheist, you rotten heathen. You disgusting idiot. You vile sinmonger."
"Really? Holy cow I never knew how much I suck. Thanks for opening my eyes!"
"You're quite welcome. Thanks for realizing how awesome I am for loving Jesus before you did!"
"Oh, you're so very welcome. Now let me join your peaceful religion so I can belittle other people too!"
"Deal!"
"Squee!"

That's a humorous example and a similar and inverted example(bleeped swears. The whole video is pretty good) from an atheist youtuber I follow that I've waffled back and forth on whether or not to post his content here (don't worry, CCGR, in a thread with big warning signs). His was the atheist flaming in the comment sections and the christian going "Oh my gosh, he's right..."

A little more empathy in Christian-Atheist discussions can go a long way.

Another note about How Not To Preach To An Atheist:
It's usually unwise to assume we don't know about Christianity (especially in America). Most of us were Christians, and much of us spent a good deal of time trying to find the answers in the Bible. Turns out, we still remember.
Conversely, most Christians I've seen don't really know what it's like to be an Atheist. A couple here, I know, recall, and they seem to have a little more understanding in the way they talk to Atheists, but it's not uncommon to hear bizarre things said to Atheists on how we are. Like, how can we have morals. Why get up in the morning? Why aren't we raping and murdering everyone. How can we not accept the self-evident fact of God?
It's weird to hear stuff like this. Seemingly from Pastors mostly... it seems... As if they spent most of their time around theists... Anyhoo.

[ArcticFox]

It's usually unwise to assume we don't know about Christianity (especially in America). Most of us were Christians, and much of us spent a good deal of time trying to find the answers in the Bible. Turns out, we still remember.

I think that's a symptom of a mindset we often see in which people assume that if you disagree with them, it must be because you lack the level of understanding they do.

For instance, if I disagreed with you on whether a Star Destroyer would defeat the Enterprise, I might think the only reason for it is that you lack the requisit understanding of the capabilities of a federation Sovereign class starship. The reality is, if we disagree, it's more likely a difference in perspective. You might consider turbolaser batteries and TIE fighter squadrons to be much more effective than I do, and I might put a lot more store in the smaller vessel's maneuverability and treknobabble than you do. So THEN how do you determine who's right? You really can't but that won't stop people from needing to be right.

(Side note: All the while we'd BOTH be utterly missing the core fact; that the capabilities of a starship or star destroyer are exactly what the plot demands, no more and no less and cannot be thus compared.)

[Sstavix]

Like, how can we have morals. Why get up in the morning? Why aren't we raping and murdering everyone.

It could be due to not being capable of understanding of a mindset where there isn't some superior authority which dictates what constitutes morality. For instance, I could think of many ways that our society could be improved greatly if it weren't for that pesky "thou shalt not kill" rule....

Actually, atheist me scares me.... I could come up with a moral justification for nearly any action, if I put my mind to it. It is a handy talent when trying to write up characters in short stories or novels. But without some form of moral compass - and given my general contempt of society and humanity, I certainly wouldn't look to them to be my guide - I could easily apply that same logic to my own thoughts and actions.